From Fred Hiltz:
Today the world mourns the passing of one of the greatest men of our times. Nelson Mandela’s life is the story of the prisoner who became the president of his beloved country. He is the icon of South African’s long road to freedom from apartheid. He is “the father of our nation”, writes Desmond Tutu, “the pride of our people.”
[….]
Mandela is destined to be remembered in the calendar of holy men and women through the ages. To give ourselves to the work of “transforming unjust structures of society, to challenge violence of every kind, and to pursue peace and reconciliation among all people,” (the Fourth Mark of Mission) will be to truly honour his life and his labours.
During the 1950s, Mandela was appointed commander in chief of the ANC’s armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) – Spear of the Nation. This organisation was responsible for blowing apart men, woman and children in places like shopping centres, cinemas and government buildings. Torture and executions were routine at ANC detention camps, a favourite of Mandela’s wife, Winnie, being to put a gasoline filled tire around someone’s neck and set fire to it.
It’s all part of “transforming unjust structures of society”.
Holy whatever. You just lost me.
Lost? Why? How?
You can set your watch by this place.
Dear David Jenkins, I don’t agree with your comments about Mandela. My understanding is, yes, he was with the ANC, he did take guerilla training, he knew how to use weapons. But, I read his book, a Long Journey to Freedom. In it, he claimed they targeted Power Stations, Transmission Towers carrying electricity,etc. ( i.e. symbolic targets). He claimed they tried not to target people, meaning civilians. Now, I admit, I don’t know the history well, but I assume if Mandela’s claim in the book, written in 1994, was seriously false, other people in South Africa would know it. So, I have trusted his claim. His book reveals a man with a political, strategic mind, and his claim the ANC’s violent acts were done with an overall political purpose seems credible to me. Also, in 1964, when he and other ANC leaders were put on trial, the charge was Treason, which means attempting to overthrow the government. As I understand it, after the prosecution presented their evidence, called witnesses, etc, when it came turn for the defense to present their case, they didn’t present a defense. They agreed with the charge of Treason, that they were attempting to change the government. So, they surprised everyone. I think they read a political statement, and let the trial move to judgement. They could have faced the death penalty, but instead the Judge gave them long prison sentences. Mandela got a life sentence.
Concerning Hiltz’s statement, I thought most of it was well written. but, I thought the last paragraph, with the phrase “transforming unjust structures” was quite corny. Bringing in the Fourth Mark of Mission was tacky. So, I agree with you in being irritated with Hiltz. Like you, I don’t agree the Five Marks of Mission is a viable plan for getting the ACOC out of it’s theological mess. I agree the talk of “transforming unjust structures” is Liberal theological hypocrisy.
I hope you are well, and I hope you read my comments as a disagreement between friends. I appreciate this website, as being a place where opinions not expressed elsewhere, can be expressed , and one is free to say what one thinks.
A man writes a book about himself in which he describes himself in a positive light. WHAT A SURPRISE!
That no-one in his country questioned anything in his book, now that he was that country’s hero is just so INCREDIBLY REMARKABLE. Obviously absolutely Mandela says about himself must be completely true. After all, the victors never rewrite history!
Dave,
Yes, of course.
I am less willing than you to give Mandela the benefit of the doubt in his account of what was targeted by the ANC. There is pretty incontrovertible evidence that innocent civilians were murdered by them while Mandela was in a leadership position. Whatever the charges were against him, there is little doubt that he was a terrorist.
It is instructive to compare Mandela’s activities and treatment at the hands of the authorities (whose apartheid policies I do not condone, incidentally) with Cuba’s Armando Valladares. Mandela was imprisoned for blowing things up – and, I would contend, killing people – Valladares for refusing to put a sign on his desk that said “I’m with Fidel”. Mandela is the object of hysterical adulation and Valladares – who has heard of him even though he was imprisoned for 30 years and consistently tortured for nothing more than refusing to grovel to Castro?
That is largely because Cuba is the left’s – including the ecclesiastical left – darling.
I would agree that Mandela’s efforts at reconciliation after his release from prison were praiseworthy but the South Africa he has helped create is the murder capital of the world, a nation where a woman is raped every 30 seconds by men who largely go unpunished, one child is raped every three minutes, three children per day are murdered, and a South African woman is more likely to be raped than learn to read.
Not a particularly inspiring legacy.
Ultimately everybody is judged, either by self, or by society or by the triune God.
It seems a little simple to presume to judge a man who was mired in an oppressive, unjust, violent regime by the standards of a society that is not oppressive, unjust and violent. That’s without going over the many differing interpretations of Mandela’s actual actions before he was imprisoned, the charges he was condemned for, and the fact that the MK was founded to perform acts of sabotage — the excesses David describes happened while Mandela was already in prison.
When one adds to the mix Mandela’s message of reconciliation and his refusal to act in revenge after his release — when he was himself under constant threat of assassination — this post comes off as just a little too Anglican-Samizdaty. A bit rote, really.
All of us are responsible for our own words and actions. Ultimately we will receive exactly what we deserve. Mandela practiced forgiveness. Perhaps Christians can do the same.
Indeed. “Dude comes out of prison after 27 years and doesn’t singlehandedly deliver a perfect society” is a somewhat churlish reading of the situation.
Glad to see that I am not the only man disgusted by the cant. Thank you David. He was an enemy all his life, supported by one of the most sustained campaigns of “big lie” lying that I have ever seen. I too remember his violent past.
Please note that in November 2001, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela became the first living foreigner to be made an honourary Canadian citizen. I ask myself this question: If I were in prison for 27 years, would I be able to embody the ideal of reconciliation and forgiveness upon my release from prison?
How would _you_ have opposed apartheid as a black man in South Africa?
I won’t have the courage to fight evil. I probably would seek shelter in a country which accepts people of all races.
I was asking Memory Lingers. Your own posts have been measured and thoughtful, Michael.
I seem to remember that Amnesty International refused to aid Mandela as his sentence was just and that he deserved it.
They decided not to label him a prisoner of conscience because of his clear and unweasely position on violent action. In 1964. They kept working for his release, however, and by the mid-90s they’d caught up to rest of the world in realising that the man was more a force for good than for evil.
You guys are unbelievable.
Unbelievable that A.I. would work for a guy who was not a prisoner of conscience but a practitioner of extreme violence. Strange that a cop killer would be thought of as a force for good. But thanks for setting the record straight.
This topic really sets off the smug. 😀
Once more, with feeling: his stance on violent action was, we tried to ask nicely, and got beaten up. At some point that gets old. So, violence is justified. But we only target government installations.
Then Mandela gets arrested, tried for treason (not murder), sent to prison for a very long time, and while he’s in prison, the MK goes over the line (which does not make apartheid any more justified, of course).
Sometime during his prison sentence, Mandela’s position on violence changes, and when he comes out, he works tirelessly to try and keep things from escalating into violent conflict.
He serves one term as President, and fails to deliver paradise on Earth.
Clearly this man was a total bastard. Inescapable conclusion.
Now, the same question I asked earlier: how would _you_ have opposed apartheid as a black man in South Africa?
I’m not a black man so I can’t answer for him. I would just compare how the black man (and the women and children) were under apartheid and how they are today… Anyway, what has apartheid got to do with it? Everybody is in favor of apartheid, even our illustrious leaders who are off to say goodbye to their friend.
I had a feeling you were about two shakes of a duck’s tail away from proclaiming that apartheid was pretty good, considering, but I was willing to give you ther benefit of the doubt.
If you’re not prepared to take this conversation seriously, enjoy your righteous anger. I certainly am.
Who’s angry? I’m just having a good laugh. Apartheid is alive and well over in
Israel and not one of the four PMs going from Canada to Mandela’s funeral has ever done anything about it. Angry? No just laughing up my sleeve.
Are you referring to The Plight of The Palestinians? That’s going to go over great on this blog. 😀
Someone can be lauded as a great man and still be recognised as a flawed human being. And apartheid had everything to do with who Nelson Mandela was and became. I really don’t understand the hostility to the man from this place. The other place on the net that’s as excercised about the Mandela story right now is Free Republic. Look them up, they’re an endless source of harmless fun.
I could not care less about the Palestinians. The “mourners” flying at public expense to live it up down in South Africa couldn’t care less about apartheid or they would be protesting Israel. Anyway. neither apartheid nor South African jail can be that bad if Mandela lived to be a healthy 95 year old.
I daresay you could live to a ripe old age yourself if you were thrown in jail in Canada for almost 30 years. Not convinced you’d be happy to go, though.
You are extremely difficult to follow. You appear to have no point to make. but surely I’m just missing it.
The point is quite simple. The point is apartheid. If one is against apartheid then go protest in the one country that still has it. There has not been apartheid in South Africa for 20 years. But I guess, as always, it is easier to fight a war that was won a long time ago. and to hang one’s medals on a dead man’s chest. The Mandela cult is pathetic. Perhaps that is my main point.- pathetic.
With the best will in the world, I’m truly struggling to follow you. Sorry if I’m being dense. When you say that Israel has a system of apartheid, you mean what, exactly? If you’re not talking about Palestinians?
Yes Israel is the country with apartheid between the Jews and the Palestinians but they are all adults and it is none of my affair.
Seems to me that the adulation for Mandela is much the same as that for Princess Diana. Nobody wants to hear that those folks were less than perfect, much less any serious criticism.