From here:
Reporters and photographers were evacuated from the West Wing of the White House early Saturday because of smoke from a faulty piece of equipment.
Reporters would not normally flee at the sight of smoke emanating from the White House, but this was different: the smoke was not accompanied by mirrors.
You could raise funds for your defense by writing jokes for the late night telly shows. In fact, if this weren’t actually from this morning, I’d think it was copied from one of them. Good job.
You seem unable to appreciate David’s wit, Dan. Don’t give up your day job.
I fully appreciate the wit. That’s why I said I thought, at first, that it was quoted from a late night comic, whose professional writers composed it. That was a compliment. Speaking of day jobs, maybe you should keep yours too.
And, I don’t have a job, day or otherwise. I’ve been retired from All Saints Day of 08.
You sound as if you have joined Anglican Samizdat to be as contrary as possible, much like Vincent. Lucky you, to be past the day-job phenomenon.
I know I often read those not-terribly intelligent comments around the internet from atheists who have all read the Party manual, and who all mock the faithful about believing in “little men from outer space” and such nonsense. Every one of them uses the same inane vocabulary and analogies. They seem to be non-educated sorts, to say the least. We’re not going to have more of that, are we?
As you use All Saints Day as a reference above, you don’t appear to be an atheist. Then again, ACofC is not full of card-carrying atheists either, but is getting close.
Perhaps you are doing us a favour, keeping us on our toes. If you want to hang around with people who hold your point of view, though, there are plenty of left-wing sites. In fact, it is hard to find a site that is not virulently left-wing these days. That is why Anglican Samizdat is apecial. I feel a bit like the early Christians in the catacombs, posting here, trying to keep truth alive in such dark ages.
I am happy to respond to you, Dan, if I do not feel I have to put up a shield each and every time. If so, why not just retreat to our own corners/sites?
Once again, I have no idea why you think I’m an atheist or anything like that. I believe that God (i.e. the Holy Trinity) created the universe. I don’t happen to believe that He did it 6000 or 100,000 years ago (as one of my neighbors and friends does), but that he did it by some unknown means that we currently call the Big Bang. I don’t expect we’ll ever really know how He did it. Nor should we expect to “know” many things that are unknowable to mortals.
I’m an active member, as I’ve posted before, of Grace Episcopal Church in St. George, Utah. I’ve been a member of the Episcopal/Anglican Church since The Great Vigil of Easter of 1984. See my other response to you for more details, in case you care. I have no idea why you’ve assumed otherwise. I believe we have much more common in beliefs than you seem to understand.
As to “little men from outer space”, I have no idea where that came from. Do I believe that God could have created life elsewhere in the universe? Of course. He may have created many others for all I know. And as far as I know nothing in the Holy Bible says that he didn’t or couldn’t.
As strange as it seems, I don’t “take sides”. I do my best to study and analyze “all sides” (admittedly an infinite number) of issues and reach my own conclusions, which I generally keep to myself. I don’t proselytize, preach, or try to convert. If living my life in a Godly and Right Way accomplishes that, so be it.
Sometimes folks show up when the trolls come out to feed. The blog is sort of a electronic Whack A Mole game.
I don’t proselytize, preach, or try to convert except to the Jehovah Witness who might actually be listening.
Good questions and interesting comments, Dan. We don’t agree on the “gay marriage” issue–and I addressed elsewhere in the abortion debate a concern on that matter. But I appreciate the integrity and thoughtfulness your comments evince. The legality of abortion is one thing, but it seems to me the real battle is to change people’s thinking. (Which is why I’m bringing this up here.) I don’t know the answer to this question, but I do wonder how inclined women are really to abort their unborn children, and how much propaganda it requires to overcome their maternal instincts.
My husband made a comment the other night that that’s how young women are being raised now, to be nothing more than sluts or b*tches. And, all that goes into turning them out that way from the inattentive and immature (forget church-going) parents at home–if there even is a father in the house; to the “real life housewives” television programming (forget reading or honest-to-goodness conversation); to the schools more interested in indoctrination than education; to the lack of being socialized that includes inculcation of manners and the give-and-take required to relate to other people; to the “fashions” that are much too suggestive and cynical–and just plain ugly–for girls or even grown women; to the misogynist (not that it’s really kinder to boys) hiphop culture; to the disdain for anything or anyone who goes outside what is deemed popular.
The culture’s been subsumed by advertising and propaganda, there is no counterweight to the purely commercial; and the church is not what it ought to be in this regard. Hence the need for a revival of authentic culture which sees the cultivation of art and craft. I’ll give you an example, my husband and I recently watched on dvd a BBC series made in 1978 called “Devil at the Gate” about the German occupation of the Channel Islands during the War. It’s superb, and it’s television… with craft in the writing, acting, sets, concepts, editing. Far surpasses anything even dreamed about by Hollywood to waste millions on now – and these productions did not cost millions. It’s more than the crafts I named, it’s also an acting style. There’s also a pronounced difference in the personality actors now can convey. These actors are believable as men. I can’t think of any male actors under about 70 who can convey healthy, normal, responsible masculinity.
Lisa, you and your husband are right in how many young people are being raised. I know that my granddaughters are not, nor are my grandsons. They don’t wear inappropriate clothing to school. They obey their parents, who have reasonable They don’t necessarily go to church (which saddens me, but I know they have the values, despite the lack of specific religious beliefs). I was “raised right” myself, but spent 30 years “living wrong” before joining the church and eventually getting clean and sober. I know redemption is possible, as does my wife, who I met in Alcoholics Anonymous. We each have one “problem child” who we never gave up on, but who has finally found redemption, sobriety and freedom from drug addiction and illicit sex. God works in mysterious ways, and I thank him for his blessings every day.
On a totally different topic, I never understand why on a blog/forum like this people don’t use their real names. Of course for all I know, your name is really John or Herman. 🙂 My name is real and I have no problem giving out my email or phone. I’m just a totally open guy.
Yes, it is regrettable they’re not finding their way to church. Perhaps you could invite them? I don’t think people do enough of that (not that I mean you in particular) … of just inviting people to church. You don’t have to come at them like a freight-train about it, just a simple invitation graciously extended. I also think there’s room for a great deal of improvement in the hospitality visitors are shown once they get to church too.
I can’t really invite them, as they live 500, 600, and 1500 miles away. Usually go to church when visiting them a few times a year, but haven’t been able to entice them to attend with us. But I also know not to try to “push” or “force” things, as that leads to negativity and resistance.
We have invited people to our local parish. Some have come, some not. A couple have stayed and joined. I’m of mixed emotions on inviting my friend next door, who is a very conservative (in all respects) “new earthed” who has left a couple of “fundamentalist churches” because his view of Biblical interpretations didn’t fit with that of the majority, or at least of the pastor. He’s unchurched at the moment. I’ve made clear that we have people of all flavors of belief, from almost none to “fundamentalists” and everything in between, but since he’s shown no inclination I’ve not pushed at our weekly “ROMEOS” breakfast. (Real Old Men Eating Out) The other guys are of his ultra conservative bent, particularly politically, a couple go to his old church, the other a Mormon. Interesting living as a minority in a strongly Mormon society.
Utah’s a beautiful state, if a bit peculiar. You’re right, it doesn’t do to push. Inviting people to church is not pushing though, it’s just an exercise in courtesy. It’s no different, in form, from asking them to join you for coffee. They’re free to accept or decline, and to do so without explanation either. The thing, I think, is to have no expectations, simply “cast your bread upon the water.” They may come; they may not; they may be delighted you asked; they may take offense you asked –but then, that’s just bad manners on their part. You never know, all you can do is your part, graciously.
The thing that’s unfortunate about the younger people…your granddaughters and grandsons… is, I think, we become habituated to going to church if we grow up doing so that really bears fruit in adulthood. I don’t know if it’s altogether possible to recapture that later. People used to want their children to grow up having religious instruction: among other considerations, I think they better recognized life is difficult and they wanted their children to have the benefit of the guidance and solace religion offers to people they can’t find anywhere else. It was very wise on their part to think, “I know I don’t have all the answers and it’s best I teach them to look to somewhere I hope they are able to find them.” It’s a great shame we’ve gotten away from that as a society.
You are right, Lisa. I come from a strange religious background.
My father was not religious, but not opposed to it. His mother was from a Catholic background and his father Jewish. The father died when my father was very young. No real religious training, partly as his mother had to work Sundays as a maid and matron.
My mother was raised Christian Science, but gave it up in early 20s when a cousin and both of her parents died young due to refusing medical treatment. To her dying day she always minimized any medical treatment for herself, but not for her children (six of us, I’m the oldest, 3 of us remain). My father died when I was 17, a month after finishing HS.
My father traveled most of the time as a salesman and my mother never learned to drive until he died. We always relied on friends to get us to church or anywhere else. As a child we went to whatever church (Congregational, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist) someone would take us to and at which mom liked the pastor, preaching, and people. I went to Sunday School somewhere about half the Sundays between ages 5 and 13, but not after that. So, I had the basics of a childhood education in Christianity.
After that I almost never went to anything church-related except a few weddings and funerals. For some unknown reason in 1984, during my third marriage, God spoke to me in some way and I decided to visit a service at St. Mark’s Episcopal Church in Durango, CO, where I then lived. I then went back every Sunday. I’d been to a handful of Episcopal services on occasion, but never thought about repeating, as they’d been weddings or funerals. I was confirmed at the Great Vigil of Easter of 1964 by Bishop Frye of Colorado.
Since that first visit I’ve been a regular communicant, and since 1991 a licensed Lay Reader and Lay Eucharist Minister. I’ve also trained more greeters and ushers than I can recall. We also assist in other ways.
As to the kids, none of my first three wives had any interest in religious education, or religion, though all of those weddings were in churches/chapels. I met my fourth and final wife in Alcoholics Anonymous. She hadn’t been active in church since growing up Methodist, but was confirmed in the Episcopal Church before we were married in 1991, in church. When we got married our children were grown and gone.
So, more than you wanted to know, I’m sure. But I’m sure my children and grandchildren have spiritual guidance from me and from others. But I do wish they’d get some more structured religious education.
Regarding hospitality in church, I have had a few experiences. My husband and I used to attend a Roman Catholic Mass on Saturday evenings, and then Anglican Choral Eucharist and Evensong on Sundays. As our children were in Anglican choirs for many years, we practically lived at an Anglican church much of the week, for the many intense rehearsals. There were times we had to be there six days a week.
Oddly enough, in the Catholic church, we often were on the receiving end of sneers when we would troop in and occupy a pew. We’re a large family. No one said Hello or Godd Morning. Actually, these were the same folks who walked down the aisle after Communion and kept going, out the door, so they could get out of the parking lot before everyone else. Just because someone is a church-goer does not mean they are admirable.
We attended one Anglican church for eight years. We tithed our income
That got cut off. Sorry, I can’t be bothered writing it all again.
No, church-going does not mean people are admirable. Look at the example of a certain Bishop suing a certain blogger.
Our Anglican “hospitality” revolved around the fellowship hour after the Choral Eucharist, in which the hip young second or third generation Anglicans preen themselves and stuff their faces, and the elderly set discusses their golf games, their community associations, and their Florida condos. They will stiffen and fall down dead if anyone 1)mentions religion or 2)expects to be spoken to if they are not in the popular set. You would get in automatically if you wore your Order of Canada lapel pin. It’s rather like the Mason handshake, but much more obvious. I haven’t paid attention to such lapel pins since Morgentaler received one.
Just for fun, I sometimes ask rather loudly, “Is anyone here a member of the Anglicans for Israel?” My God…the glares. Or, “May I add a piece to next week’s bulletin about the March for Life this month?” I kept asking even after I found out the Anglican Church is pro-abortion.
Hospitality? No, they just have a show-off hour, with tea and biscuits.
Oh, if you ever visit Trinity Anglican Church in New York City, they serve cocktails for the fellowship hour, but I don’t think it is any easier to get a “hello.”
If you want a real and genuine welcome, come to Grace Church (Episcopal) in St. George Utah. Everybody is outgoing and genuinely interested in others. Our priests make a point of personally meeting everybody who visits for whatever reason (we get lots of snowbirds from AB, SK, MT, ND, WY, etc, down here). As mentioned before, after every Sunday service we serve a sort of light lunch of cheese and crackers, veggies and dip, and assorted sweets, plus coffee and tea and punch for the kids. The same is done after the Saturday evening service and once a month there is a big pizza dinner after that service.
Come to Christ Church Cathedral in Montréal. We have two gay priests and the church is so left-wing you’ll have to lean on the walls, but we’re very welcoming indeed and what you’ll get if you come in and ask the same sort of questions is a respectful debate. 🙂
I agree, as noted, on not proselytizing, preaching, or attempting to convert anyone. When a missionary comes to my door (and I’ve had Baptist, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and even Methodists) I simply tell them to save their literature for someone who needs it. I just say I bless them in their work. There are plenty of “unwashed” who can benefit from finding any church home, even if it isn’t the same as mine. If it helps to make the proselytes better human beings, I’m happy with it.
We’re a minority here in Southern Utah. Although this city used to be about 95 percent LDS, it is now about 60 percent LDS. It has more churches than you can imagine, almost all of them looking essentially the same, in the standard LDS design of the last several decades.